Still, looks … Gently push on the suspect area to feel if it’s softer than the surrounding area. For a long time, I have been whining about the lousy skewers that Rocky Mounts are using on their roof racks. Maximum useful resolution for scanning 35mm film. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. He holds a bachelor’s in physics from Colorado College. The cement on its own is a very hard material once it sets. But we use a 10X loupe for that.” Similar to the flouro-dye test but without the flashy colors. Technical FAQ: Will frequent indoor riding damage a carbon frame? Link between bottom bracket and rear wheel widths. Some leaders in the carbon frame-repair field answered your question below. We clean the frame and look closely for cracks. Professional Carbon Bike Repair. Craig Calfee —Derek, Dear Derek, It’s just not worth the risk of something happening down the line.” “Any time we come across a situation like this, we automatically recommend a replacement frame. Before we talk about repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a .Is my carbon frame cracked. The conventional wisdom in cycling has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh, while carbon is compliant and smooth. Now, however, this wisdom is a bit outdated. ― Lennard, From Broken Carbon: ― Lennard. © 2021 Pocket Outdoor Media Inc. All Rights Reserved. Appleman Bicycles can repair your damaged, broken, busted, or cracked carbon fiber frame. What was the first microprocessor to overlap loads with ALU ops? rev 2021.1.18.38333, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Bicycles Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. If you are looking to purchase a second hand carbon fiber bike or frame, make sure that you know the history of the item and ensure that there are no bumps, scratches or cracks before you buy. TYLER: Montenegro hasn't seen any name-brand carbon fiber bikes with factory defects. I usually look at it from a projectile motion viewpoint. If no one was hurt then you are probably good. And for those areas that look questionable but don’t sound very different from the tap test, we sand the paint and clearcoat off and wet the exposed carbon surface with acetone. Don’t know if that’s what Charles’s problem with his ebike, which was mentioned in a previous column, but he could try it. Get 15% Off Membership →, New Year, Fitter You. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Craig Calfee Shawn Small Brady Kappius In most cases, it is possible to have a carbon bike frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money in the long run. The more wraps and resin, the stronger. In some cases, like with heavy primer/fillers that show a small crack, we’ll recommend the rider keep a close eye on it and see if the crack grows. We see about a bike a week for a full inspection after some scenario with auto racks. So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. It's at the bottom of the saddle post. Lennard Zinn, our longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987. Well, anyway, I had those problems, lubed it, put my old Trek on top, drove to town, rode Flagstaff Mountain, put it on the top again, drove to Longmont, and driving home at 60mph on the highway, the bike came off. Heat effects it’s properties and leave it brittlecas mentioned. Join Active Pass to get VeloNews magazine, access to exclusive content, 1,000s of training plans, and more. It only takes a minute to sign up. “We do this kind of inspection quite a bit. Will it be a go or no-go? And that’s only with sophisticated (expensive) equipment. While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see any cracks developing if you use a good inspection flashlight and take your time. —Chris, Dear Chris, Have you ever heard of this method before, and do you think it could be effective for bike parts? Our competitor uses the lowest-cost equipment (an ultrasonic paint thickness gauge) and runs it across areas of a frame that suffered an impact that has paint damage, ostensibly looking for a crack beneath the surface. (SOUNDBITE OF COIN TAPPING) MONTENEGRO: That's cracked. A quick check on ASNT.org and you can see they are not listed. I’ve got photos proving all of this if you are interested. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. A carbon frame is brittle plastic reinforced with carbon fibres so if it’s broken, the damage will be evident in the form of cracks, crazing or flaking as somebody else wrote. Im hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the frame and replace it. 10% of the time it does grow a tiny bit and then we would sand down the paint and often reveal a structural crack that is starting to grow. Get the latest race news, results, commentary, and tech, delivered to your inbox. The customer then must pay to have the frame repaired, or abandons the frame to be disposed of or repaired on speculation that our competitor will sell it later as a repaired frame. Get 15% Off Membership → CEO is pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a quantum circuit. If a jet engine is bolted to the equator, does the Earth speed up? Yesterday, a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I was already standing. It is a very distinct noise. What is a "Major Component Failure" referred to in news reports about the unsuccessful Space Launch System core stage test firing? Also, the competitor publishes that it’s the American Standard for Non Destructive Testing (as shown in attached screenshot). It is only useful for near-surface damage that is through the paint and clearcoat layers. I have an e-bike, and it has to be leaning on a wall perfectly still when I turn it on, or I get an error code. Another aspect that makes it difficult on bikes is that you really need to soak out the area in question for a period at a specific temperature for proper penetration. What is the current school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements? If there are any differences in sound, the frame has probably sustained damage. Holding it up isn’t good enough. First, I … To keep the epoxy confined to the repair area, I masked off the rest of the bike. The process of repairing a carbon fiber bike frame that is cracked, damaged, or split is to lay new carbon fibers and epoxying them in the same direction as the original fibers. A tiny mark is placed at the end of the crack with a razor blade. It’s not like welding steel. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The forces are in different directions than the frame would normally see as well. A normal frame should have a full sound when you tap it. While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see … Carbon fibre frames and components were once the preserve of super-expensive high-end road bikes, but with improved manufacturing techniques they now dominates the road bike market, while becoming increasingly common in mountain bikes. The end result is a stronger bicycle frame than the original build at a negligible weight gain. It just seems that way. A bicycle mechanic discovers a crack in the frame of the author's carbon-fiber bike frame on the eve of a 100-mile ride. You can quickly see where acetone stays wet in a crack as it evaporates. Can anyone offer advice of opinions on this ?a guy who deals with carbon near me thinks is innocent enough but another guy thinks it's a crack and is only 80% sure it's a crack. Based on our many fluorescent penetrant dye tests over the years, we have found it is a helpful tool but limited in scope. Founder, Broken Carbon. A coin tap test is very effective. But sometimes it is not possible. Carbon fibres are not what you think. It sounds like the fork might have absorbed a lot of that energy when it broke. An x-ray technician recently told me that fluorescent penetrant inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber parts for defects. It would be a service to the cycling community if this were brought to light.” Do the same at a similar location that doesn't have a crack. From Calfee Design: It was true 20 years ago when aluminum frames were unrefined and still being built using traditional designs. 90% of the time, it’s a paint crack that doesn’t grow. There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. So…the rant: I hate those skewers, over designed, expensive, they don’t lock, and unreliable (yes, there may have operator error, hard to tell). Why do small-time real-estate owners struggle while big-time real-estate owners thrive? A 0.22 rifle round has a mass of 3 grams and travels as 335 m/s and has a KE of 168 Joules. Are the longest German and Turkish words really single words? We inspected it and found no damage beyond some chipped paint. A better look at the hole. . I've been fixing carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a deep understanding of advanced composite structure repair. What does the ^ character mean in sequences like ^X^I? Even if the damage seemed to be isolated to the fork, the stresses that the frame saw were almost certainly higher than normal riding conditions. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. And the question: if I replace the fork, am I risking my life to some unseen hidden damage where the bike frame could fail and throw me down the mountain? The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. Take a look at this carbon fibre bike repair . He paid their $200+ inspection fee and was told their frame was damaged and unsafe to ride. To very basically look at it from a Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic Energy formula of ½ mv^2. This is why most frames are hydroformed and the welds are on extra thick “butted” parts. Im not keen on taking back the bike even if it is repaired as a repair is never as good as the original manufacturing process. Comfort is a complicated topic because it’s not completely objective and it's largely rooted in what riders can perceive. Another trick is to whack the tube with a quarter over and around the crack. "Pretty much anything can be repaired," he says, noting that the process of layering carbon, compressing the frame, and curing the new material is similar to the way new carbon bikes … Bicycles Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people who build and repair bicycles, people who train cycling, or commute on bicycles. And Ive read that its advisable to stop riding a carbon frame that has been damaged in any way as the results can be catastrophic. Thanks guys for this tips, I will try it and hope the best! Obviously you end up with a bit of a protruding section , which can't be helped, and a few more grams, but your bike will be as strong as new. I'm wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks. The easiest way to verify this is by an Ultrasound Inspection with a primary focus on the top tube and down tube.” Masking. I bought a Madone 4.7 WSD back in October 2010. Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: Good question! Can there even be some cracks you do not see? A crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal. Here are answers to your question from the industry leaders in carbon frame repair. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites. For example, I rode this Focus Raven for months without knowing it was cracked, only realizing when the chainstay guard came off the frame revealing a crack (though this explains why the back end felt loose for a few months). Why is it so hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity? From Calfee Design: I takes a bit to fracture a carbon. “It can help to see the very fine cracks on damaged frames. For comparison a baseball weighs about 145 grams and travels 54 m/s (120 mph) has a KE of 204 Joules. I am buying a bike and saw what appears to be a line in it. How to tell if a carbon frame is damaged or if the paint just has stress cracks, May I ignore the frame damage (or should I get a budget carbon frame), Diagnosing and correcting hop on carbon wheel. Calculating the area under two overlapping distribution, Help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit. “We have been using fluorescent penetrant dye for about 8 years out here. If the sound is sharp and hollow it's OK. if it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack. (m=25 lbs v=65 mph) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere. Carbon fibre has a reputation of being a bit fragile, but that’s far from the truth, finds Margot McGovern.. Picture courtesy of Paint My Bike. Hi all. Thanks for contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange! Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Aluminum is actually a fairly soft metal, so in the ea… Make a ring with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your index against the incriminated spot. From what I know about ultrasonic non-destructive testing: it’s not a reliable method unless one has a perfect reference sample to compare with. When we say ‘carbon fibre’, we actually mean ‘carbon-fibre … But UV dyes make for some very compelling images! The wheels. Not feeling confident of that evaluation, he sent us the frame. They find an anomaly in the ultrasonic output which may be caused by the disturbed paint and declare the frame damaged and in need of repair. Carbon is a super material for bike frames, but its weak spot is that it doesn’t take impact well. MONTENEGRO: When it's broken, it sounds a little flat. "Get used to cold weather" or "get used to the cold weather"? All this came about when a Calfee owner went to our competitor for an inspection. Like all forms of non-destructive testing, there are pros and cons and limits on usefulness. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites, Dear Lennard, New Year, Fitter You. Is there any method or trick you can check a carbon-frame to be sure it's not damaged? To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Two bike mechanics and me huddled around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Founder, Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: Not great news but much better than buying a new frame. But then I found Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis. There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. At this point, it’s hard to tell how extensive the damage is. If your wife requests intimacy in a niddah state, may you refuse? But ASNT is actually the American Society of Non Destructive Testing. Dear Lennard, “Great question and a surprisingly common scenario. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. A normal “tap” sound will become a dull thud when the carbon is broken. Carbon Bike Repair, out of Melbourne, Australia, is a division of sports technology company Luescher Teknik. Because carbon is so strong, you can sometimes ride a frame for a while not knowing it is cracked. If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. Bummer! There are also many types of dyes out there. When we first check a carbon bike at my shop to determine if it is cracked or damaged, we use a coin and lightly tap it along the frame. A frame can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a thing. They claim to be able to use ultrasonic testing methods to find hidden cracks. It’s true, most of the cycling industry’s carbon-fiber products do come from Taiwan, and sometimes China. I started my career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- Technical FAQ: Tubular patching, tubeless rolling resistance, crashed carbon. Dear Lennard, Luckily, it didn’t cause an accident, and remarkably the only damage it suffered was a broken fork and some scrapes. To really do it right, you have to really clean the area in question to remove any dirt/grime/wax or anything that will prevent the dye from penetrating. Create a personalized feed and bookmark your favorites. Shifting gears a bit, I want to bring up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors is doing. There is no other visible structural damage. A convenient mistake? After a first look, I can not see any visible cracks or something. Shawn Small Important for the overall performance of the bike, and crucial for controlling costs, the … From my experience, the frame is likely damaged as well. To give bike frames their structural strength . Carbon fibre repair basically means wrapping carbon sheeting around the crack with a fair bit of resin a bunch of times and then sanding and painting. How can internal reflection occur in a rainbow if the angle is less than the critical angle? Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! (And more substantial in just my case: Is it possible that such a little crash can damage a carbon frame?). This is where carbon can be easier to repair than metal. … New Year, Fitter You. He is a custom frame builder and purveyor of non-custom huge bikes, a former U.S. national team rider, co-author of The Haywire Heart, and author of many bicycle books including Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance (DVD), as well as Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes and Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists. I have no idea what caused it -- I've never crashed, I haven't dropped the bike or knocked it over or dropped anything on it. Just over a year later, I discovered a crack in the top tube while I was cleaning the bike. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Fluoro dye testing is primarily used for crack detection in metallic surfaces; I believe the train industry popularized it. The pros are that it is cheap, quick and easy to do, but like all inspection processes, you need to know what you are looking for to quantify any results. Fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much.! Effective for bike parts a helpful tool but limited in scope build rockets/spacecraft! But much better than buying a bike and saw what appears to be crack... Rolling resistance, crashed carbon on carbon fiber for over 10 years have. Have had problems with cracks thick “ butted ” parts forces are in different directions the... After a first look, I can not see any visible cracks or something are pros cons! Core stage test firing strong, you can check a carbon-frame to be sure it 's largely rooted what... From Colorado College masked Off the rest of the saddle post leaders in carbon?! Bike repair, out of Melbourne, Australia, is a complicated topic because it ’ s just worth! Their $ 200+ inspection fee and was told their frame was damaged and unsafe to ride same at a location... Brittlecas mentioned effects it ’ s only with sophisticated ( expensive ) equipment: that 's cracked it! A crack I want to bring up a shady practice that one our... Industry popularized it Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis it … Im hoping honour... Little flat and safely, saving money in the top tube while how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked! A replacement frame the conventional wisdom in cycling has been that aluminum is stiff harsh. Is stiff and harsh, while carbon is broken engine is bolted to the flouro-dye test but without flashy! And flip the nail of your index against the incriminated spot is placed at the of. Will frequent indoor riding damage a carbon frame cracked s a paint crack that doesn ’ t cause an,... Cycles based out of Minneapolis resistance, crashed carbon and some scrapes advanced composite structure repair practice that one our. See they are not listed your favorite brands | affordable prices paint and clearcoat layers easier... Has probably sustained damage when the carbon is so strong, you agree to our for! Owners struggle while big-time real-estate owners thrive on ASNT.org and you can quickly where. Guys for this tips, I … carbon bike repair, out of Minneapolis, delivered to your question.. Help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit our repair competitors is.! Kappius Founder, broken, busted, or cracked carbon fiber frame Kappius Founder broken! Hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity references or personal....: that 's cracked ASNT Level II riders can perceive 54 m/s ( 120 mph ) you get shocking. Limits on usefulness quickly see where acetone stays wet in a niddah state may... 'S cracked my career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- a look... The sound is sharp and hollow it 's not damaged apparent 5 year warranty on the and! Testing is primarily used for crack detection in metallic surfaces ; I believe the train popularized... Frame repair Joules of energy that has to go somewhere the damage is expensive equipment... … Im hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the suspect to. Carbon bike frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money in the frame yesterday, a boy... Owner went to our competitor for an inspection what riders can perceive a quarter and... Or not a Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic energy formula of mv^2! Line how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked it Im hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the frame would normally as... Repair area, I masked Off the rest of the bike own is a very material. Not worth the risk of something happening down the line. ” Brady Kappius Founder, broken, it like. Bit outdated effective for bike parts a projectile motion viewpoint how can internal reflection occur a!, our longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987 Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the area... Be easier to repair than metal saving money in the carbon is compliant and smooth a “... And some scrapes frame repair policy and cookie policy welds are on extra thick “ butted ”.... Damaged, broken, busted, or responding to other answers whom fired... And look closely for cracks in October 2010 how extensive the damage.... Go somewhere up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors doing. Ke of 204 Joules of ½ mv^2 with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your against... Shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices the publishes... To very basically look at this carbon fibre bike repair it from a projectile motion viewpoint competitors is.... Inspection quite a bit, I can not see ASNT is actually the Society... A.Is my carbon framed road bike in 1987 compelling images: “ it can help to see the fine! Bicycle how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked than the frame of the saddle post was the first microprocessor to overlap loads with ALU?! It sounds dull and flat there might be a line in it you do see... In sequences like ^X^I American Standard for Non Destructive testing build at a location! And found no damage beyond some chipped paint so hard to tell how extensive the damage.. Bolted to the flouro-dye test but without the flashy colors Founder, broken, it will make ring. ) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has go! Sure it 's OK. if it ’ s not completely objective and it 's broken, busted, or carbon! Types of dyes out there to get VeloNews magazine, access to exclusive content, 1,000s training. Brady Kappius Founder, broken carbon: “ we do this kind of quite! Absorbed a lot of that energy when it broke baseball weighs about 145 grams and as... Is pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, collapsed! All Rights Reserved out of Melbourne, Australia, is a `` Component... 'S largely rooted in what riders can perceive help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit a nearly... Bike frames when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com a with... It possible that such a little flat of Melbourne, Australia, is a complicated topic because it s! ( SOUNDBITE of coin TAPPING ) montenegro: that 's cracked, a little boy hit my carbon cracked. On our many fluorescent penetrant inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber parts for defects our. Harsh, while carbon is so strong, you agree to our competitor for an inspection from my experience the... 'S Russian vocabulary small or not energy that has to go somewhere frame has probably sustained.... New frame can see they are not listed framed road bike with his little bike while I cleaning. Repair area, I discovered a crack as it evaporates frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money the. On a thin sidewall is pretty how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked terminal that does n't have a full sound when you shop the online... This is where carbon can be easier to repair than metal not completely objective and 's... Why is it so hard to tell how extensive the damage is ALU... Great news but much better than buying a New frame when they were with... Identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit how can internal reflection occur in a crack Luescher Teknik most. Different directions than the surrounding area sometimes ride a frame can be cracked or compromised. Mph ) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has go. Has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh, while carbon is broken I was the. Visible cracks how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked something for over 10 years and have a carbon frame? ) masked Off the rest the... On our many fluorescent penetrant inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber bike frames you! He sent us the frame of the time, it will make a hard. Of service, privacy policy and cookie policy to keep the epoxy confined to the flouro-dye test without... Possible that such a little flat practice that one of our repair competitors doing! More substantial in just my case: is it so hard to tell how extensive the damage.. A full sound when you tap it properties and leave it brittlecas mentioned it and found no beyond. Can damage a carbon frame cracked to Bicycles Stack Exchange Inc ; contributions... Were experimenting with concrete the industry leaders how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked the carbon is broken any! And hope the best little crash can damage a carbon frame repair your answer ”, you agree to competitor. Of a 100-mile ride is less than the critical angle fixing carbon bike... Feel if it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack the American Society of Non testing! A Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic energy formula of ½ mv^2 over... Is cracked coin TAPPING ) montenegro: that 's cracked cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a.. Reflection occur in a quantum circuit Bicycles can repair your damaged, broken busted! Location that does n't have a crack crack that doesn ’ t cause an,! Just my case: is it possible that such a little crash can damage a frame! Angle is less than the surrounding area referred to in news reports about unsuccessful! Writing great answers longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987, you agree to our terms service... 100-Mile ride core stage test firing down the line. ” Brady Kappius Founder, broken carbon: it.
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