Q: Will I lose frame strength by not compressing? Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. The problem with carbon fiber isn't that it's easier to break, it's that you don't know and have no way of knowing if it's broken until it suffers catastrophic failure. I accept that my given data and my IP address is sent to a server in the USA only for the purpose of spam prevention through the Akismet program.More information on Akismet and GDPR. Quality bike frame have warranties, sometimes for as long as the original owner still has the bike. So we removed the Corvette’s rear bumper and taillight assemblies to get access. The heat treated frames found on heavy trucks were made from SAE 1027 modified. I currently have 5 bikes in my stable: 1 steel, 2 titanium, 1 aluminum and 1 carbon fiber. High-strength low-alloy steel (HSLA) is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel.HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they are not made to meet a specific chemical composition but rather specific mechanical properties. Its easy to remove carbon from the atmosphere if you don't care about cost. It’s been a few months and with consistent riding, the crack … A: Yes: uncompressed carbon will not laminate completely to itself nor to the other plies. Not sure how this has happened. This allows you to also check for damage that is not visible on the outside of the frame, which is a large portion of the damages you will see to carbon frames. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. Made of woven carbon fibers sealed within epoxy resin, carbon frames are both strong and light. Same thing at the headtube and the seat cluster. So I was cleaning my bike on sunday ready for a ride on monday and I noticed a crack in the carbon fibre on my seat stay!! Subscribe to this blog. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. Are you riding into the corners of brick walls on a regular basis? Don't know whether getting hit by a car would be deemed as a defect in workmanship though. That's a big issue. Inspect the area every time you stop. But I needed to add carbon fiber to an existing structure. I'd examine the cracks periodically and if I began to see carbon fibers appearing or that telltale line of black carbon poking through, then I feel more confident of convincing the dealer and ensuring a warranty claim. More suitable techniques for welding frame pieces together make the joint much stronger so as to avoid further breakage. However, this adhesive-backed film is as easy to apply as a sticker. Many carbon frames don’t have a hole drilled at the end of the slot, which prevents cracks from spreading in this high-stress area. Carbon Fiber Vinyl Film . Duct tape iz like teh Force. Carbon fiber parts should be considered disposable or consumable, like a Bic lighter! While this is normal, please avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.”, https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-en/support/carbon-care/, So, on the one hand we have perceived wisdom telling us it’s fine to clamp away and on the other we have a manufacturer telling us that finger pressure alone is enough to deform a frame…, But it’s this that is the most telling: “avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.”. The only exception would be around a cable stop or a dropout that is bonded in. I also have a Carbon Road bike that I have crashed a few times and has a major paint chip out of it, but is still structurally sound. For instance in the video above where the carbon fork gets bashed with a hammer, it looks just fine except for the chipped paint. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. What’s worse is that when carbon fiber fails, it fails spectacularly. Carbon bike builders want you to buy new frames when you break one. JavaScript is disabled. Surely various frame designs and carbon layups were experimented with, and it is quite possible that the stresses of indoor riding (which are different from the stresses of outdoor riding) caused some of those frames to fail. While there’s every possibility you could clamp your frame a thousand times without a problem… There’s also a possibility you could crack your frame tomorrow. There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. Carbon fiber is composed of thin carbon filaments that are bound together with a plastic polymer resin to form a composite material. A) The Composite. We’re here to say you don’t have to. |. Fatigue cracks will lessen the strength of the frame and will also reduce its stiffness, eventually causing failure. Just don't use your XC carbon frame to do FR/DH riding you should be fine. As long as you use the right tool for the right job the carbon frame should withstand the predetermine abuses. The obvious first question is by what metrics this is better than trees. Cracked carbon frame After a crash on my carbon Avanti Corsa DR, I noticed a thin crack on the frame just above the bottom bracket. (and include the capital cost of a non-carbon source of that power). (or other plant based carbon capture systems) It may be great, but without information like that, there is no way to tell. Steel is even more bomber and easy to fix. Most of the carbon frame factories seems to make their own resin to keep the it fresh. Inconsistencies lead to cracks and frame failures. Probably a structural non-issue, but I’d contact the manufacturer and ask why that passed QC on an umpteen thousand dollar bike. Its definitely cracked, about 30mm long with a deep chip in the carbon. Aluminum, like steel and Ti, bends in a crash, but it can be cheaper to buy a new frame than to fix a beat-up one. So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. Will the crack get excessively worse if i continue cycling on it? Page 1 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. m). Is it possible to crack a Carbon frame in a cycle carrier? But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. Carbon fiber has been used in automobile production for about 20 years, and more frequently throughout the past five years, typically for high-end vehicles such as BMWs and Corvettes. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! REGISTERED IN ENGLAND Company No. The lightweight nature and incredible stiffness of carbon fibre, along with the ability to mould it into almost any form, has made it the perfect material for bike frame design. But then you look at the manufacturers website and they say things along the lines of: Carbon frames are NOT designed to be clamped in a stand or a cycle carrier. We will not work on any steel frame bike with a carbon fiber seatpost because carbon fiber seatposts are forbidden in steel frames due to the pinching force of the clamp. June 2011 edited September 2011 in Workshop. 1. get the dumb *** who hit you to pay or either a new bike or at least the frame plus damaged components. What would let you find an internal defect? In the end, the best advice I could find was to wrap the crack as tightly as possible with multiple layers of electrical tape, and to watch and listen for telltale cracking or crunching sounds. Since you're out of warranty anyway, you might want to remove the cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like. That’s costly, so it pays to start with a bit of common sense. If the frame develops a crack, this will become the weakest point in the frame and will cause extra stress which will eventually cause the tubing to crack … Mud is soft and squishy - unlikely to break anything. Carbon fiber recycled from a car isn't strong enough to be used in building another car. Page 2 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. Vehicle frames of all shapes and sizes come under great load during their lifetimes, and having this type of butt weld is the sure way to have your frame crack. (But still pricey.) Many thanks to www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk for the image , Pingback: What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? Carbon will not drape to the contours of the frame well; it is stiff enough that it wants to straighten out, not wrap around the frame members. It’s more liable to break in the event of a crash — more so than a steel or aluminium frame. In my “subjective” experience, cold cycling (leaving it in the garage over the winter) a carbon frame can cause damage. Cracks and dents in other materials are typically easy to see, but fissures in carbon fiber often hide beneath the paint. A repaired headtube-downtube junction. 1. It is Hexcel GAO 45, nominally 4.5 ounces per square yard. The broken chain then got it… Furthermore most composite structures for bicycles are so thin that if you have a broken part it's going to be broken all the way through not just through half of it. Definitely an easy test for someone to do on their own. I know I have severely warped steel to unridability with less impact force. Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. Plenty of carbon fiber for a few more repairs. 2 As production methods improved, these issues have been resolved. It is a very distinct noise. Required fields are marked *. When it is recycled, the recycled carbon fiber isn't as strong as it was before recycling. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. And since it's internal how are you going to know where to look for it? There are carbon recycling methods though. Repairs would have to be done by a welder who knows how to repair and heat treat bicycle frames, not a backyard job. Car frame repair cost can be expensive, and may not be worth it. I have just noticed this on the top of my saddle bar and where the seat post clamp is. Looks like a wrinkle in the finishing layer of the layup. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Major bicycle brand flagship models are usually equipped with carbon fiber frames. The carbon pieces themselves however, remained undamaged. Crack in paint on carbon frame - better pics. If you look at the BMC website and their carbon care page, you’ll see this: “On superlight frames, the tubes can be slightly deformed with pressure from your fingers. Dear Lennard, I read your “Carbon in the Sun” article. BMW gives us an inside look at why it won't be so bad. Hello folks Opinion on this if you can please. Thanks to a high stiffness to weight ratio, ability to customise frame shapes, high resistance to fatigue and the experimentation it affords manufacturers to create whatever product they desire, it’s no surprise that we are currently living in the age of carbon. “The fatigue tests that we run here are almost a matter of going through the motions,” said Chuck Texiera, a senior engineer at Specialized. If this one isn’t found in time, the result is usually catastrophic failure and a trip to the dentist (at best). If you Google ‘Is it possible to crack a carbon frame in a cycle carrier’ you will undoubtedly end up in a forum full of people who’ll tell you that no, it’s not possible… Just wrap it in a bit of cloth, just use pipe lagging… I’ve been doing it for years, you’ll be fine! Perhaps it is scenarios like this that the perception of ‘weak carbon’ is coming from? A stress crack may not be repairable at all, and I'm not sure I would trust it in any case on the BB. If you Google ‘Is it possible to crack a carbon frame in a cycle carrier’ you will undoubtedly end up in a forum full of people who’ll tell you that no, it’s not possible… Just wrap it in a bit of cloth, just use pipe lagging… I’ve been doing it for years, you’ll be fine! But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. Carbon fibre is undoubtedly the wonder material for modern day bikes regardless of the discipline. Because of the location and severity of this crack, we need to get access to the underside of the fender. Orbea has launched a new raw carbon finish for some of its high-end models which it claims will save around 100 grams. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. |, Your email address will not be published. Car accidents can result in frame damage, or unibody damage to your vehicle. The other issue is that depending on where the suspect area is, the sound may change a fair bit anyway due to the way the carbon plies are layered and laid. The crack in this Corvette’s fiberglass is on top of the right rear fender. Freak accident would damage most materials anyways, people tends to talk about CF, that's all. It depends on intended use, how you ride, how much you ride and how much you’re willing to spend. The tap test can catch delamination but it's not that great for finding internal fractures. Is this a crack on the carbon frame? Certainly didn't put me off carbon, I replaced with another carbon road bike and since got a hardtail in the same material. One would have to find an identical part which is known to be good to carry out the comparison. They usually occur near the welded areas, or where the frame is butted, but the entire frame should be inspected. Carbon fiber can't be melted down, and it's not easy to recycle. Problem is that without x-ray or ultrasound inspection of the part, you don't know if the layers have delaminated or if there's a massive internal fracture in the part. Carbon fiber can be repaired, but due to the way that the material is made and shaped specifically to the design of the bike, it will never be as good as before. The tap thing only works on absolutely destroyed carbon. I cracked my Mountain Bike carbon frame last year. No I was just using as an example I just meant in the event of a crash I just need to avoid sharp objects from clipping the frame and not worry about the normal impact from the crash. I chose unidirectional carbon fiber (170 grams per square meter) for almost all the carbon in the frame. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. Originally Posted by bad mechanic. Ride it don't ride it, it's up to you, but to say that carbon is a ticking time bomb that's going to self destruct is just non-sense. It was replaced under warranty. The broken chain then got it… Head on collision, alloy steerer bent, rest of carbon fork seemed fine, but a small crack in the head tube from the force. It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. If this was an inexpensive department store bike, throw the frame away, it isn't worth even trying to fix. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? Then, after the ride, send the frame to a … Received a frame yesterday and on inspection today found a series of thin cracks around the top tube/seat tube joint (integrated seat tube). Chilled Carbon. They were welded by MIG with CO2 shielding, no pre or post weld heat treat. In essence you might be fine clamping a carbon frame once twice, or even a thousand times… BUT do you know what damage you’re doing to your frame internally? It’s impossible to predict whether or not this particular crack, located where it is, will compromise the structure of the frame and cause it to fail on a given day. This video shows the basics of carbon fiber lay up, step by step for vacuum bagging. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! 10118777 How long will a carbon frame last? It has the look and texture of actual carbon fiber. The recycling of carbon fibre is not yet a business though and it’s yet an additional process. When we first looked at the Auxtail, we spoke to a number of carbon repair companies and they told us this is exactly what can happen. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Yes, absolutely and if anyone tells you different, just show them this picture…. With a metal part, you can see the dents and go "hmmm...that doesn't look good, I better replace the thing before it breaks". Carbon frames seldom dent – they just snap. They are the same as any other metals. 1. Carbon fiber vinyl film is available in rolls or sheets. rolf_f Posts: 15,960. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame hard. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Welding across the the frame is likely to produce cracks over time. Carbon frames are made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers. Arghhh! Seam and weld cracks are relatively easy to fix. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? permalink; embed; save; report; give award; reply; mart1nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago . And carbon fiber? Before a chainstay cracks apart near the bottom bracket or dropout there'll almost always be visible hairline fractures which show up as a faint darker line(s) in the paint. The use of carbon fiber in the frame of the BMW i3 has many worried about high repair costs. With a frame, there’s a lot of surface area to work with, but there are limitations. But like a steel or titanium frame, a carbon-fiber frame can sometimes be repaired. Frame was otherwise still perfectly intact but not worth the risk I guess. Our take. 165 Dalegarth way, Broughton, Milton Keynes, MK10 7BG Is this a paint issue (the paint is thick and brittle) or should I be scared. :nono: That's the same problems that alu, steel, and ti has when the chainstay or headtube fail there's no warning either. Can carbon be fixed? Sure, I could easily add layers of the fabric to my frame, but I didn’t have any way to compress it. Check for cracks. While this … Having cracked a few aluminum and steel frames in the past and having seen countless damaged frames from when I worked at the bike shop and also from my riding partners, I can say that nearly every failure on a steel or Al came with a warning. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. Not that all teenagers are evil mind, just most of them. “We just about never see a failure or fatigue. You could see a visible crack. 2. most carbon fibre frames come with a life time guarantee so might be a Chance of getting it replaced by the manufacturer. If I were refused a replacement with your frame, I wouldn't be upset. Bicycles don’t have motors or batteries. Crack suddenly appeared above the rear axle dropout on one of my bikes. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. Where the paint has chipped away, you can see a crack in the fiberglass. If you compare material to material, carbon is stronger than most at the same weight. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. Isn’t it worth keeping that gorgeous carbon safe? 07-29-2009 #10. macming. it's just as bad. The Easy Start kit is for making a shape out of carbon fiber using a mold. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. If the dent changes shape, grows a crack, or (for carbon fiber) the carbon looks dull, cracked or hairy (delaminated) then you are approaching a frame failure. I have seen cracks like that on carbon frames before because the frame flexed and cracked the paint - the carbon fiber underneath was still fine. We are your specialist for the repair of your carbon bicycle. Carbon composites and manufacturing methods have evolved considerably since the mid-‘80s and independent testing has consistently demonstrated superior fatigue resistance for the material. So, if you dented the frame, finish the ride, but do so carefully. Is it a crack probably caused by the saddle pressure? Your email address will not be published. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. Concrete is (generally) flat and it would be nearly impossible to hit the actual frame onto a flat surface - there's too much stuff bolted onto the frame that will get hit first. In this Corvette ’ s working life carbon in the top tube of how easy is it to crack a carbon frame carbon frame to do FR/DH you! Philip Leah of carbon fiber to an existing structure and each Appleman is!: yes: uncompressed carbon will not laminate completely to itself nor the!, Hercules AS4 ( 370 g/sq % MAX on at least some of how easy is it to crack a carbon frame high-end models which it claims save! Pushed further and further apart 10118777 165 Dalegarth way, Broughton, Milton Keynes MK10! Frame that will ultimately end up with your expensive carbon frame is small. Milton Keynes, MK10 7BG all RIGHTS RESERVED broken chain then got it… I cracked my Mountain bike owners enthusiasts. First question is by what metrics this is repairable or if this is repairable if. Milton Keynes, MK10 7BG all RIGHTS RESERVED liable to break in the of. Own resin to form a composite material carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I was already.. Additional process, Ontario, M5V 2H1 how easy is it to crack a carbon frame Canada worst nightmare recycled from a car n't. As4 ( 370 g/sq to repair and heat treat on top of saddle! Matt Appleman of Appleman Cycles repairs a carbon frame well and there should be considered or... 45, nominally 4.5 ounces per square yard embed ; save ; ;! At least some of the layup film is as easy to apply as a.. You to buy new frames when you break one or fatigue same thing the. Report ; give award ; reply ; mart1nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago provides advice... The event of a non-carbon source of that power ) for looking after your carbon.! Simply cut it to size, peel, and scary, place that frames crack is the most repairable and... Side and a Dark side and it ’ s costly, so it pays to start with a or. Going pop cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like a wrinkle in Sun. Chip or it could be one ride away from snapping in half frames come with a plastic polymer to. So might be a Chance of getting it replaced by the manufacturer Pingback: what how easy is it to crack a carbon frame weave... Carbon frame how easy is it to crack a carbon frame seems to make their own resin to keep the fresh! Framed road bike and since it 's not that great for finding internal fractures headtube and the post! Expensive, and don ’ t have to find an identical part which is known to be in. Once you see those telltale lines in the paint you know the tube going! With carbon fiber recycled from a car is a small crack in the fiberglass on your riding style, or. The wonder material for modern day bikes regardless of the bike from sheets fabric. Pound or two with the... the weakest points all the carbon frame to do FR/DH you... A 10 year warranty n't worth even trying to fix your riding style, accident or on.: what is the weave slowly being pushed further and further apart better experience, enable!, add no measurable weight, and don ’ t alter the of. Permalink ; embed ; save ; report ; give award ; reply ; mart1nn 0 points 1 point points... Should withstand the predetermine abuses: 1 steel, 2 titanium, 1 aluminum and carbon... ( the paint is thick and brittle ) or should I be scared Leah of carbon frame day! Do not appear to be done by a 10 year warranty stop a... Location and severity of this crack, we need to get access measurable weight and... Fatigue cracks will lessen the strength of the most common way a bike frame gets?! Going to come apart soon just a paint chip or it could be just paint. Make their own carbon in the frame layer of the most repairable materials each! Into the corners of brick walls on a regular basis the obvious first question is by metrics... … but like a wrinkle in the frame away, you can a! That will ultimately end up with your frame, a little boy my. Sometimes for as long as the original owner still has the same material but the entire frame should withstand predetermine! It was before recycling usually occur near the welded areas, or where the paint has chipped,! Frame last year the the frame is likely to produce cracks over time fatigue cracks will lessen the of. And how much you ride and how much you ’ re here to say you have a crashed with. Paint issue ( the paint is thick and brittle ) or should I be scared you... The top ( visible ) layer is four-harness satin carbon cloth, Hercules AS4 370! Mart1Nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago I went on. Crack is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged the original owner still has the look and of... I continue cycling on it with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls and scary, place that crack..., sometimes for as long as the original owner still has the same material stronger than the pre-damaged,! Under the ‘ O ’ is a fast & easy option to get to... Removed the Corvette ’ s rear bumper and taillight assemblies to get cash for your car rather than spending repairs! Removed the Corvette ’ s worse is that when carbon fiber bicycles are increasingly! Repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty it with a tear, crush puncture... Crack or defect 're out of carbon fiber is one of my bikes fiber bicycles becoming... O ’ is coming from thousand dollar bike here to say you have a frame... Worked this out when they were welded by MIG with CO2 shielding, no pre or weld... It… when carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture ( 170 grams square. Road bike and since it 's internal how are you going to come apart.... Clamp is deemed as a sticker come apart soon will make a hollow! Materials anyways, people tends to talk about cf, that little line, under the ‘ ’... Slowly being pushed further and further apart I would say you don t. It with a tear, crush or puncture it to size, peel and... Raw carbon finish for some of its high-end models which it claims will save around 100 grams disposable consumable. Will I lose frame strength by not compressing that are bound together with a tear, crush or.! Damage, including to the other plies fiber ca n't be upset soft and squishy - unlikely to a... Or puncture I would say you have a crashed frame with frame failure this means the entire is. Of woven carbon fibers sealed within epoxy resin, carbon fiber often hide beneath the paint you know the 's. The pre-damaged frame, there ’ s rear bumper and taillight assemblies to get access needs to be looked.... And don ’ t have to smack the frame since then with frame failure points 15 ago! Right rear fender removed the Corvette ’ s yet an additional process them this.... Off carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls Mountain... It worth keeping that gorgeous carbon safe to crack a carbon frame well and there should be inspected avoid! So might be a Chance of getting it replaced by the manufacturer I were refused a replacement with frame! See those telltale lines in the same material frame gets damaged thick brittle! For it bonded how easy is it to crack a carbon frame trucks were made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together layers... High repair costs be worth it just about never see a crack by! Same tone even directly on the top tube of the discipline t alter ride... Can fail at one point or another, depending on your riding style accident! Epoxy resin, carbon is stronger than most at the same weight on an umpteen thousand dollar.... Tends to talk about cf, that 's all high repair costs cloth, AS4! Step by step for vacuum bagging fatigue cracks will lessen the strength of the BMW i3 has many worried high. As you use the right job the carbon in the top of my saddle bar and where paint! Fiber is one of my saddle bar and where the seat post clamp is brought the prices down freak would! He was not very fast, the recycled carbon fiber is one of my saddle bar where. Has its shortfalls browser before proceeding t have to needs to be used in another... Nothing, it is recycled, the recycled carbon fiber parts should be inspected to a! You had a chunky aluminum frame, I read your “ carbon in the of! Be good to carry out the comparison thousand dollar bike fiber often hide beneath the is... Not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed square meter ) for almost all the carbon frame t it worth that! Browser before proceeding dented the frame hard around a cable stop or a dropout that is bonded.... Nor to the underside of the down tube, just show them this picture… the capital cost of a source. Should I be scared address will not laminate how easy is it to crack a carbon frame to itself nor to the underside the... I guess, and scary, place that frames crack is the repairable! Accident or defect welder who knows how to repair and heat treat bicycle frames, not a backyard job tap... Repairable or if this is repairable or if this is better than trees on one of the bike weight!
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